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Thursday, August 30, 2012

Just the one idea, Mervyn?



Letters to Editor Southland Times

Unproductive missives

Robert Guyton draws our attention to inequality (August 25).

In all his writings to the paper, he has yet to advance a single, pro-ductive, job creating idea. He is against all economic development. He opposes agricultural intensification, oil and gas utilisation, coal mining and tourist development:

The communists believed equality would create wealth and a better society and ended up with poverty.

Robert Guyton and his greenie mates believe a better society will be created if we are all reduced to the same level of wealth.

This utopian society of equality, self-sufficiency. recycling, no pollution and zero carbon foot-print, has already been done in North Korea.

The North Koreans live in desperate poverty. New Zealand doesn't need to repeat the experiment.

When Robert Guyton advances one idea that's not some pie in the sky pipe dream, or that's not just free-loading on Peter in order that Paul can pay his grocery bill, perhaps we can give him some attention.

Meantime, he is just wasting space and the world's resources.

MERVYN CAVE
Manapouri


A productive plan

Mervyn Cave wants me to put forward a productive, job-creating idea that's not pie in the sky. 

How about this: read the Berl economic report,
"A View to the South: Potential Low Carbon Growth Opportunities for the Southern Region Economy" that was released at a public meeting in Invercargill just this week.

In it, Mr Cave will find proposals for forestry, horticulture, manufacturing, engineering and education that could ensure that Southland prospers. 

It's a new report; it's exciting and it's positive, it's full of job-creating ideas and nothing like the poverty-striken North Korean scenario that Mr Cave describes for Southland.

ROBERT GUYTON
Riverton

So, Mervyn. Guess you'll be giving me attention now, as promised. Man of your word, are you?

34 comments:

Anonymous said...

So you have put forward the concept of Mervyn reading a report. Is that job promoting? Is Mervyn going to become employed by somebody to read this report?

Sally said...

From your comment yesterday "great letter from Mervyn - wait til you read my reply. You'll really enjoy it!"

My anticipation of something great coming from you for once, was almost too much for me to contain my excitement.

You can't imagine how flat I felt after reading it this morning.

robertguyton said...

Hair-splitting, eh, Anonymous?
Feeble.
The report is pointing at a plethora of potential jobs in Southland. Have you read it, or are you just trying to score a point?
You failed.

robertguyton said...

Flat, Sally?
So you've read the report and find it un-exciting?
Surely you're not commenting without having read it, are you?
That'd be a bit hypocritical, wouldn't it?

Anonymous said...

Your opinion Robert. But I would say you have not added any of your support to any of the suggested claims in the report which in my opinion is feeble.
I have read the report and I have to say I was not impressed.
Hazelnuts as an example. In 2009 there were reportedly 80ha of hazelnuts producing 5-7 tonnes of product in Southland. At the reports best price estimate that is a gross income of $400/ha. Am I feeling inspired? No. Other agricultural systems in Southland can out strip that at least 10 times.
Organics... Does the Dr understand sheep on organic pastures in Southland under typical internal parasite situations? And there is not provision for the economics of these systems.
Forestry? The processing industry in Southland has decreased dramatically over the last 10 yrs. Is that because of increased opportunities/ returns?
And dont get me started on the BAU and the lack of model equations presented. Why detail is not presented I can only speculate.

robertguyton said...

Goodness, Anonymous - You're the doomsayer Sally and Mervyn rail against!!!

Here, read this.

http://permaculture.org.au/2012/07/27/woody-agriculture-on-the-road-to-a-new -paradigm/

Anonymous said...

Robert @ 12.06pm
I am all for letting the market determine what we produce, provided it is sustainable.
I don't know what you support with links and no opinions. It is like trying to have a conversation with a librarian. Helpful for reading material but lacking opinion.
The link provided has .au. Australia has a different climate than NZ. Or have we conviently forgotten about climate? Don't tell BS Buster.

robertguyton said...

Anonymous - you are nervous about a link with an au. address? Goodness!
Should we disregard any information from oputtside of NZ?
That'll put Monckton's witterings in the trash-can for a start. I'm surprised you're so insular.
That said, what do you think of the information in the link I provided?
Hazels and sweetchestnut, btw, thrive in Southland. I have many planted in readiness.
I'm also a little amazed by your call for more opinion from me - most of my (few) detractors say I offer far too much!

robertguyton said...

outside of NZ

anonymouse said...

i think climate is international and as such i think Mr Moncktons opinions are excellent ,,
He obviously frightens you as u continually try to ridicule him. As for agriculture , if we are talking southland.. Im not so sure Australia would be where i would be looking for inspiration.. Different style of agriculture ,
u may not realize that mr Guyton

robertguyton said...

"i think Mr Moncktons opinions are excellent"

In the corner, my case, resting.

anonymouse said...

more like . your case vanishing into nothingness actually

Anonymous said...

Robert @ 3.57
Nervous? Hardly. I understand later frosts put hazel nut yields at risk. Not something that happens a lot in Aus.
Should we disregard information? It is trendy around here to disregard what doesn't fit preconceptions. Perhaps I should join in?
Your link? Ok.
Do I need remind you of your blog title? Surely not?

Joe W said...

I understand later frosts put hazel nut yields at risk. Not something that happens a lot in Aus.

Frost-free Australia? Tell that to the locals at Liverpool on Sydney's South-Western fringe, who experience sub-zero mornings every winter. The same happens in the bucolic Southern highlands of NSW, and as far north as Queensland's Atherton tableland. The New England district of Northern NSW easily rivals Southland when it comes to winter frosts.

Outside of Australia's narrow coastal strip, continental mass produces extremes of temperature that we in NZ only marginally experience in a few spots such as Central Otago. If you wish to remain willfully ignorant of the lessons we can draw from agricultural practices in those areas you're of course free to do so, but it's hardly a convincing argument.

robertguyton said...

Anonymous - you seem willing to fold on a great idea over the slightest pretext! Frost, goodness me! If you do read the article on Woody Agriculture - On the Road to a New Paradigm you'll learn that the 'neohybrids' they've developed are providing the researches with a raft of hazel varieties suitable for every possible situation. Still, if you want to be churlish, as you seem to do, don't bother reading it and continue to throw up any and every little problem you can dredge up. No skin off my nose, but you can't expect me to regard your opinion very highly.

robertguyton said...

researchers

Anonymous said...

Robert @ 6.14am
Churlish? Me? Must be some other Anonymous. I have put my opinion down of links you have provided at your request. Just because it doesn't align with your opinion doesn't me I was being rude. If I have inadvertently offended your sensitivities I apologise. Hazelnuts must be near and dear to your heart. And good on you for having pashion.
For the record, I read your link and there was no mention of frost, the apparent achillies heel for high yields of hazel nuts. I wont continue because it seems a sensitive topic for you.

anonymouse said...

i read the link to woody agriculture .. and i think anything that can be grown profitably in NZ , without displacing anything that we already do well is worth considering.
However , it becomes immediately obvious from the data in that article , that palm trees are the most efficient at producing oil.. many times that of the other alternatives ,
it would seem to me that a palm oil industry in our northern regions would be worth investigation,, and of course u have an animal feed source as a by product , not to mention the transport and cosmetic high value oil markets already established

robertguyton said...

Must have been another Anonymous, Anonymous, who could know?
I'm glad you read the link. There are very successful hazel nut growers here in Southland already. They don't report troubles with frost. My neighbour's hazedl nuts crops are huge! Your frost worries might be misplaced, perhaps. I do have a strong interest in hazels, yes. I'm coppicing mine and finding them very productive and vigorous. I'm talking with ES staff about the possibilities for hazels on the farms in the region. I'm just starting to trial sweet chestnuts. My trees are head height now and growing strongly. I'm haven't the same confidence in them as I have in hazels though, but we will see!
Very kind of you to not push the hazel talk too far. I was typing this response through tears of anguish and could barely hit the keys for my piteous sobbing.

robertguyton said...

anonymouse - you read the article also? That's very gratifying and encouraging. I'm disappointed though, that you fell for the same old 'highest producer wins' trap again. There are many more factors that need to be taken into account when chosing a new crop to invest in and the most important to me would be resilience. Palms do grow here, though I'm not sure about that species. You might need to take a more considered look at your idea - Northland ain't Indonesia. That said, I know you're joshin', and I did smile wryly :-)
Speaking of animal feed by-products, willow is up there with the best of them and it's another tree crop that I'm quietly promoting for Southland. It supports bees as well, and provides biomass for fuel. Have you considered willows, anonymouse? Haikai Tane's the man for willows.
The thing about woody crops is that they harvest more sunlight than grasses and cows combined. Great carbon capturers too! What more could you ask? And if you say 'milk', I'd say 'oats'.

robertguyton said...

9:32pm on the 'Kevin's query, my reply' thread, Anonymous :-)

anonymouse said...

not into willows , but i think animal returns is vital for soil health and productivity . so go sheep and cows
im sure there are literally thousands of acres in nz not being utilized and nuts and anything else should be grown
possibly reduction in bee numbers is a serious concern

robertguyton said...

anonymouse said...
not into willows ,
Perhaps you've not explored the possibilities - I wouldn't dismiss them so lightly, anonymouse. Stock-fodder willow is a global reality. but i think animal returns is vital for soil health and productivity .
Yes, of course, but there are animals and animals. Cow manure (real cow manure, not slops) is primo soil food, according to the Biodynmic farmers and me) so go sheep and cows and the real producers of soil, worms and soil microrganisms. Farmers who kill that animals are foolish.
im sure there are literally thousands of acres in nz not being utilized and nuts and anything else should be grownwe are agreed then!
possibly reduction in bee numbers is a serious concernIt's certain that bee numbers have fallen and will fall further. I'm promoting bee-friendly farming practices and alternative-pollinator friendly townscapes

paulinem said...

Annon ( I do wish you would display a little credibility by at least giving us your first name !!)

Your reply to Robert forestry is nothing re the future etc shows how little you know and maybe to full of prejudice to see " the wood for the trees"

Last year I did a research on Wood energy for my environment degree. I assure you forestry is definitely the way of the future especially is the production of bio diesel. Next time you are talking to ?? Richardson ( one of the biggest in Southland re enterprise) he will tell you that forestry is definitely the way forward. This is why he has put his money where his mouth is .... and built large to accommodate the benefits of wood as a source of production.

Coal and gas the future ...look up on your computer "Lock the gate' campaign in Australia. This is a very proactive campaign driven by the FARMING community because as they found out the only ones to gain by production of coal gas etc are the multinational companies.

Horticulture ...processing food for export .. are you aware we in Southland have a proven track record of this production that was growing larger and larger with many markets gained over seas. BUT unfortunately narrow minded farming directors closed the plant down wanting a mono production of sheep and beef instead

Lastly Robert a very very good reply enjoyed and put Mervyn in his stupid place.

anonymouse said...

Its petty simple..
If an enterprise is profitable it will thrive ,
Yes im sure we have the soils etc to develop horticulture and im sure in time we will be growing things yet to be trialed ,, how ever there has to be a market , which must support the infrastructure and ecconomy already here other wise you have whole sale financial collapse ,
Its very disappionting that you have such a poor opinion of farming and farmers ,,
O course its easy to be aside line critic isnt it

Anonymous said...

Handy tip for you Robert. Clutha ag development board did some research on willow a few years ago. Malcolm Deverson was the man. I think they were considering anthelmintic properties, animal performance and it's ability to act as a nutrient sump.

robertguyton said...

Thanks, Pauline. Wait til you read today's letters - you'll laugh your head off!
I'm with you - plants are the future.

robertguyton said...

Anonymouse - profitability is vital for any undertaking, it's true, but to say it's simple, is not. There are multiple factors that determine profitability and one of those is mindset. Potential producers stuck in the thinking of one approach may be missing the potential of others, simply because of their inability to envisage anything other than what they know.

robertguyton said...

Clutha Ag development Board - thank you, Anonymous.
There are newer, more exciting willow species available now and we've got some of those growing here from cuttings in our 'experimental beds'. My son developed a strong interest in these.

Anonymous said...

Great that your son is taking an interest. I believe the sustainable farming fund supported a lot of research on willows. I think they used them in wet lands to soak nutrients. There were some problems as grazing wet lands was frowned upon. But they did present a view that water quality was improved. The practical test was challenged cutting willow for stock.

anonymouse said...

I think the other factor affecting profitability is confusing philosophy with reality,
We are talking profitable regional agriculture here,so it should be easy for a group of like minded individuals to lease a small plot and test the market .
You will find an example of what to do is much more convincing than criticism of others "mindset"

robertguyton said...

Anonymous - have you seen this article about my son and his research into technologies to assist seed planting? I'd be interested in your comments.

http://us.zinio.com/sitemap/Men-magazines/Organic-NZ/Jul-Aug-2012/cat1960022/is-416227280/pg-53

Anonymous said...

I believe in encouraging young curious minds. Good on him for trying new things.

robertguyton said...

He has other plans and technologies as well, Anonymous. You should see his turbine blades, they're works of art! Hand-fashioned too.