Those reforms are the best thing to happen for years. Labour under Clarke cried 'let the woman work, shove the kids in childcare centres, THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO WORK....' Now they cry, 'oh those poor woman, having to abandon their poor children to earn a living'
Stuff it, send them off to work and lower my bloody taxes thanks
One of nature's true gentlemen, you are Animal. Those one year-olds, rudely torn from their mother's breast thank you most sincere for your empathy. The flaw in John Key's clever scheme, of course, is that while he's forcing women out into the work-force, there are no jobs for them to go into. How best should we describe that sort of ploy? Heartless? Brainless? Perhaps just plain 'Tory'?
'The Left' are challenging the Government where they are making changes to the welfare safety net. It's both their job (Opposition, remember?) and their responsibility (They believe in Welfare, remember? It's bedrock Left ideology to support a society that has a welfare safety net installed.)
But Robert, is National really removing that safety net? they are well down the path to removing as much of it as they can possibly get away with, Shunda. They are, I believe, driven not by the original intent of the designers of the New Zealand welfare system, but something else very much less admirable.
Or is there just a correction of what the intention of welfare was supposed to always be about?. There is a correction needed. These guys are the very worst people to do the job. It's going to hurt a lot of New Zealanders as a consequence of National's ideological hard-heartedness.
Tell me Robert, do you think it is right for people to have the choice to work or not? Some people have little choice as to whether they work or not, Shunda - needs must. Some are able to avoid 'paid work', making their own arrangements in terms of income. I'm not sure I understand the intent of your question.
Do you believe that welfare abuse has ever occured in NZ?
People have indeed taken unjustified advantage of the welfare available in NZ, Shunda. It seems to be something that happens in all walks of life, here and abroad.
So Robert,you accept that we have a situation that needs correcting, but you are saying this government shouldn't because their ideology is all wrong.
Don't you see this as hopelessly naive?
Don't you see that when situations like this arise we need to figure out why this has happened?
You can't expect a government to sit by while an unsustainable welfare system grinds the country to a halt (both socially and economically).
What is the answer then Robert? because I am hearing nothing new from the left, no admission that they could have or should have done better, and no policy that will actually change anything.
The left don't own the welfare system, NZers do, and clearly enough NZers think the guys raising hell "down the street" need to go and get a bloody job and give a better life to their kids.
The Left hasn't done the perfect job of managing the welfare system in NZ. Nor has the Right. The intentions of the Left though, seem more valid to me, than those of the Right, in the field of welfare. I'd much prefer the Left to drive reforms, than the Right, in light of the basic ideologies of the two. National has the levers of power just now, so it's a time of threat for the welfare system, hence my highlighting of the actions they are taking now.
Tell me Shunda and Animal why are you just as vocal about directors of companies ( such as we read today re South Canterbury finance) who have abused their position to enjoy a better lifestyle at the expense of the share holders (and in South Canterbury's case the taxpayers)... as you are about welfare beneficiaries 'so called' abuses.
Yes we know "some" beneficiaries abuse the system as we know "some" directors like Gavin Bennett abuse the system ..as long as humans are on this planet this will happen
The ol' 'answer a question with a question' switcheroo, eh Shunda! It's a ploy you use regularly. My Headmaster friend says they used to cane boys who did that :-)
15 comments:
Those reforms are the best thing to happen for years.
Labour under Clarke cried 'let the woman work, shove the kids in childcare centres, THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO WORK....'
Now they cry, 'oh those poor woman, having to abandon their poor children to earn a living'
Stuff it, send them off to work and lower my bloody taxes thanks
One of nature's true gentlemen, you are Animal.
Those one year-olds, rudely torn from their mother's breast thank you most sincere for your empathy.
The flaw in John Key's clever scheme, of course, is that while he's forcing women out into the work-force, there are no jobs for them to go into. How best should we describe that sort of ploy? Heartless? Brainless? Perhaps just plain 'Tory'?
Robert if there are no jobs to go into they get to stay on welfare.
This isn't hard.
There are no jobs to go to, Shunda, so what's Key creating all the anguish for?
What's the left creating all the anguish for?
Using the poor as their own political football??
'The Left' are challenging the Government where they are making changes to the welfare safety net. It's both their job (Opposition, remember?) and their responsibility (They believe in Welfare, remember? It's bedrock Left ideology to support a society that has a welfare safety net installed.)
But Robert, is National really removing that safety net?
Or is there just a correction of what the intention of welfare was supposed to always be about?.
Tell me Robert, do you think it is right for people to have the choice to work or not?
Do you believe that welfare abuse has ever occured in NZ?
But Robert, is National really removing that safety net?
they are well down the path to removing as much of it as they can possibly get away with, Shunda. They are, I believe, driven not by the original intent of the designers of the New Zealand welfare system, but something else very much less admirable.
Or is there just a correction of what the intention of welfare was supposed to always be about?.
There is a correction needed. These guys are the very worst people to do the job. It's going to hurt a lot of New Zealanders as a consequence of National's ideological hard-heartedness.
Tell me Robert, do you think it is right for people to have the choice to work or not?
Some people have little choice as to whether they work or not, Shunda - needs must. Some are able to avoid 'paid work', making their own arrangements in terms of income. I'm not sure I understand the intent of your question.
Do you believe that welfare abuse has ever occured in NZ?
People have indeed taken unjustified advantage of the welfare available in NZ, Shunda. It seems to be something that happens in all walks of life, here and abroad.
So Robert,you accept that we have a situation that needs correcting, but you are saying this government shouldn't because their ideology is all wrong.
Don't you see this as hopelessly naive?
Don't you see that when situations like this arise we need to figure out why this has happened?
You can't expect a government to sit by while an unsustainable welfare system grinds the country to a halt (both socially and economically).
What is the answer then Robert? because I am hearing nothing new from the left, no admission that they could have or should have done better, and no policy that will actually change anything.
The left don't own the welfare system, NZers do, and clearly enough NZers think the guys raising hell "down the street" need to go and get a bloody job and give a better life to their kids.
The Left hasn't done the perfect job of managing the welfare system in NZ.
Nor has the Right. The intentions of the Left though, seem more valid to me, than those of the Right, in the field of welfare. I'd much prefer the Left to drive reforms, than the Right, in light of the basic ideologies of the two. National has the levers of power just now, so it's a time of threat for the welfare system, hence my highlighting of the actions they are taking now.
Tell me Shunda and Animal why are you just as vocal about directors of companies ( such as we read today re South Canterbury finance) who have abused their position to enjoy a better lifestyle at the expense of the share holders (and in South Canterbury's case the taxpayers)... as you are about welfare beneficiaries 'so called' abuses.
Yes we know "some" beneficiaries abuse the system as we know "some" directors like Gavin Bennett abuse the system ..as long as humans are on this planet this will happen
Tell me Paulinem, what gives you the indication that I am an enabler of capitalist greed?
The ol' 'answer a question with a question' switcheroo, eh Shunda!
It's a ploy you use regularly.
My Headmaster friend says they used to cane boys who did that :-)
Taught by the best Greenfly! ;)
Then prepare yourself for the rattan!
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