Ya gotta laff!
Straterra's response to the weekends anti-lignite mining festival, through senior policy analyst Bernie Napp's letter to the Southland times, was a seemingly maladroit attempt to counter some of the issues raised at the public meeting at the Mataura Community Centre. Dave Kennedy has countered several of the silly claims made by the Straterra man, but I found Napp's generic 'without mining we are doomed, dooooomed!' caterwaul the funniest.
Bernie says,
"Indeed, if there were no energy and minerals, whether imported into or produced in New Zealand, there would be no hospitals, no transport, no schools, no electricity, no food, no clothing, no phones." and
"The sky is falling, the sky is falling!"
In fact he didn't say the latter, but had it echoing around inside his head, I'm sure.
The large and well-informed party of opponents to Solid Energy's plans to open-cut mine lignite at Mataura are not saying, as
"No clothing!!!"
Lordy!
9 comments:
That you took a potshot at me just shows you have no arguments. What is actually going around inside my head is that it depresses me that people can say any old thing to the media, and the media just print it. We live in the Age of Stupid.
Hey, Bernie!
Please don't take any personal offense at my colourful writing - I aim to liven up debate and at the same time point to any nonsense I see and there's some of that in your comment to the ST editor, that's for sure.
You can't really be equating lignite mining with nudity, can you?
The opposition to the mining at Mataura is quite specific; it's the digging-up of the lignite there that they are opposed to, not mining in general. If you were aware of that, your use of 'we need minerals or we'll be nude' argument is suspect, hence my lampooning.
I suggest that if you have a valid argument, you present it. Ms Genter made a valid claim about the communities that are most closely associated with coal mines in New Zealand and how they are not the beneficiaries of the wealth generated there. Your response did not address her claim. You spoke of other things. People read 'industry' responses such as yours closely for real meaning.
Too true Bernie.
The irony is lost on Robert that he uses a computer with all it's silicon, copper and other mined content to post his comment demeaning your truism.
Paranormal
paranormal - no, the truism is not lost on me, it's just not relevant to the issue of lignite mining in Southland. There are very few computer components, or items of clothing for that matter, made from lignite.
Bernie what you and your friends miss the point that there are OTHER OPTIONS ..yes in the 20th century coal etc was seen as the only other option for our energy.
BUT its 2012 now we know there are other very laudable answers to our energy problems than mining. Answers that are a win win to all that one of there answers Bernie is WOOD Energy.
I ask you why destroy permanently acres of our best land, rip up our roads with use by ten ton trucks, and cause horrific unavoidable pollution both in air and in the residue coal pollution seepage into our water ways. Particularly when Wood energy will do everything that lignite will do.
With WE you return to the land in replanting and leave our productive land for growing food to a growing hungry world. There is only minimal pollution etc with WE, so why promote a resource like lignite in which is loose loose to all involved. I assure you far more employment and economic stimulation would come from WE than ever will come from lignite.
Question is WHY is a STATE agency like Solid Energy promoting lignite mining, when it owns vasts acreage of forests in Otago and Southland alone that can be used to make briquettes and bio diesel .... indeed in these forests there is enough of suitable wood that SE owns to provide bio- diesel for all of NZs present and future transportation needs.
Ah, but RG, we also need fuel. And fuel in various forms can be produced from lignite. The questions are - Should this particular deposit be used in this way? And if it is 'yes' to that, is now the right time to proceed?
So, Robert and Bernie {and associates) Go to it. Open minds are seeking answers.
FBB - fuel?
Planning to burn lignite briquettes in your home fire, FBB?
They produce as much greenhouse gas as raw lignite, only the processing has added a further Co2 component to their tally. If you beklieve that NZ should be reducing it's output of greenhouse gas, as we have contracted to to, this is a contrary move.
Fuel - for your diesel truck, FBB?
The processing of lignite into diesel will at least double the greenhouse gas emissions resulting from the use of oil-based diesel. Same argument as above. How can this be acceptable to you?
There are other fuels available - we are using them now. Believing, as you might, that you'll have access to cheap diesel because it is sourced here is a mistake, FBB. Is locally produced milk cheaper here than the same stuff is overseas? Markets don't favour locals, as you see.
Is that enough fuel for thought, FBB.
Farmer BB again what is wrong with you and BN and Anonymous why can you not accept there are other alternatives to lignite mining.
We are in the 21ST century not the 20TH century we have educated people better now we KNOW better !!
LIGNITE is finite resource when its used up it used up gone for good ( most likely 20years ) and will leave a minefield of destruction in pollution and desolate land ...don't future Kiwi generations deserve the same goodness of our environment, as we have as my father and grandfather enjoyed!!
Are you not aware that much of the Eastern Southland lignite field is unmineable, this is a recorded fact that is tabled in an intensive research on the field and should be available from your library.
There are other alternatives that can be tapped into such as WE to give you diesel far more than the lignite will give us.
Why are you so convinced we in NZ will gain the most from SE plans are you so sure there is not another economic agenda for the lignite from another country such as China. Are you sure the profit made from the ES lignite resource will stay here and not float off shore to China
well I'm back RG. You have certainly been busy writing and posting in my absence.{i have had the odd brief look but had no time to post}
To deal with the points you raised -
Our home heating is mainly done with home grown wood.AS well as a large wood burner we do have a range with a large fire box that can burn wood or coal. Don't like using coal because of the carbon particles that end up up in the spouting.
Diesel. I am not naive enough to think that diesel produced at Mataura would be any cheaper for us. {Price will continue to be to be based on distance from port.)
RG,you (and paulinem) seem to think that my mind is closed on this subject. I assure you my questions (refer to post Jan.27 5.17pm) were asked with an open mind. I like you want the right decision to be made. We all have different knowledge and experience to bring to this debate.
I am open to any possibility of alternative fuels for our diesel vehicles, but they have to be practical and (in the long run) economic. In the 1980's Oilseed Rape grown on Southland farms was processed in a plant set up at the Awarua phosphate works by a Farmers Coop known as Southoil.It was was known that using vegetable oils (in diesels} had been experimented with in Europe. Experiments were run at Telford Farm Training Institute in South Otago with a Leyland tractor running on a 50/50 blend of rapeseed oil and diesel. Some Southland farmers tried various blends in their own diesels. I tried a little in one of my tractors. I was more adventureous with an my old Datsun Diesel Ute.(Not to much to lose if it had turned to custard!) At one stage I had it running on pure rapeseed oil. (It smelt like a Fish and Chip shop)It ran quite well but was a little hard to start when cold. On the practical side I think the use of Rape oil on farm as fuel could have been made to work (At least as a blend}. The reason it didn't continue was one of economics. Even though fuel prices were extremely high at the time the yield of oil per acre was not enough to compete with diesel.
Of course for anyone with access to used cooking oil the economics are more positive and if you have supplies handy it is reasonably practical. Not a large scale answer though.
I know that vegetable oils are grown and processed in Canterbury. {I know the old "Southoil" expeller went to Ashburton. Though I think i heard some where that they had updated to a more modern machine.) But again economcs are playing a part with the Biodiesel side of the operation because the Govt is subsidising it. And whle that may be acceptable during the early stages of development, it is not affordable in the long term.
Well i've got a bit carried awy words.And as this is an older thread it probably won't be read by many! Better stop. Have a good day RG
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