Well I have just watched it and your analysis is off rob - that was brilliant - they take the money off the poor by paying the minimum possible for the work and the profits created go to a small number of people thus increasing the gap between the haves and have nots - and that system must be rebalanced - sounds good to me - but I am definately a have not, although in the past I have been a have.
Marty - your take on what John Minto is spot-on but I still stand by what I say. He didn't, in my view, present himself well. His voice became flatter and flatter as the interview went on and he didn't successfully steer clear of sounding decades behind the play, stylistically. He sounded like a '70s Communist. Despite the fact that his message of disparity and the ills that brings is, in my view, correct, he didn't package himself or his message well. I was disappointed. The panel reacted similarly to me I think, despite Helen Kelly being there. Today, even she sounded 'dated'. The inequality meme needs to be jazzed-up if it's to capture the hearts of New Zealanders. In comparing John Minto to Anne Tolley, I may have been unfair. Minto has an intelligent grasp of his ideology whereas Tolley just comes across as pedantic and lacking in oomph, smarts-wise. Her performance was truly awful and John's was merely disappointing. He needs a PR person, despite his depth of experience and obvious dedication to a just society. Tolley's not even in the game when it comes to that. I know you are Mana-supportive Marty and I hope those issues of message can be overcome before the campaign-proper begins.
Your description of Minto sounds great and reminds me of the latest archdruid report (thanks for putting me onto that site). Cut-through, fight their sound-bite prepackaged ready to eat politics by being real and telling the truth - hell it is bound to fail but who cares, at least we will have integrity. Mana voters can see and smell bullshit from a mile away - that is why many don't vote now - not for the gnats, labour, greens or anyone. But we will change all that rob, we must.
Agree entirely Marty - truth will out and prevail. Might as well start as we mean to go on. Personally, I think Mana and her message are one cycle too early. During the next term, the kinds of things Hone. John, Sue and Annette are saying will go straight into people's ears, rather than having to fight through the cotton-wool of 'it's still going okay'.
How about green? You didn't mention green. New people are needed Shunda? Where are they and how will we know them and won't their lack of experience count against them when they have to mix it with the old hands? New parties, new characters struggle to be eard at all. Have you got some ideas about how the change you hint at might happen? Do you see it happening outside of the conventional political system? Grassroots? I'd like to know what you are hinting at. Perhaps you just don't like Minto :-)
labels shunda just labels - and the meaning changes over time depending upon who we want to demonise.
What part of "they take the money off the poor by paying the minimum possible for the work and the profits created go to a small number of people thus increasing the gap between the haves and have nots - and that system must be rebalanced" do you disagree with shunda?
New people are needed? - he is new having never entertained standing before or do you mean younger or perhaps unknown?
No Marty, I mean people with workable ideas instead of tired, unworkable worn out ideology.
You misunderstand the cause of our problems in my opinion, and using boring 1970's rhetoric is about as sensible as rebuilding Christchurch out of spaghetti.
Robert, mix it with the old hands? Nope. The old hands in this country are an excessively stubborn bunch that haven't given a rats arse about the next generation for, well, generations!
Basically Robert, baby boomers are the problem, they have built sweet eff all for the next generation, and that is an apolitical movement, both left and right are as bad as each other.
A whole generation to blame Shunda? All culpable? Doubt it! There are good men and women scattered throughout the generational firmament. Recognising them is the trick.
The so called workable ideas aren't really working too well are they - why is that? Because they are actually not workable, just thought and maintained as workable, and the so called unworkable ideas, which have not been tried because of the vested interests in keeping them unworkable, if tried, would actually prove to be workable.
Generalising is not always wrong Robert. And sure, there are good baby boomers in NZ, but just like we can generalise that the western world has been drunk on unsustainable resource exploitation, we can do the same with a certain generation in NZ.
"is there any hope robert" - FFS you are still breathing aren't you?
Instead of moaning about old ideas and ideologies use your brain and think beyond your programming - that is the only way you can be part of a solution instead of just adding to the problems.
Minto sounds far more coherent without the shouting into a megaphone abusing innocent young people from countries he hates.
Unfortunately his new choice of political vehicle lends itself more to lots of decibels aimed at the unhearing.
This interview portrayed him more as someone with a considered view who "could" make a useful contribution if he "discussed" issues with people who were not simply targets for abuse. People not already of his ilk, but who have a capacity to listen to intelligent discourse regardless of its "unpalatable" source.
Often the Mintos of the world force others to turn a deaf ear. It is not an uncommon failing.
24 comments:
How very centrist of you Robert!
Everything makes more sense in the middle ;)
But it's so dull Shunda!
Perhaps you're thinking of joining the Presbyterian Church?
I missed it rob - what do you mean? because it seems quite insulting to compare John Minto to tolley in any way.
Well I have just watched it and your analysis is off rob - that was brilliant - they take the money off the poor by paying the minimum possible for the work and the profits created go to a small number of people thus increasing the gap between the haves and have nots - and that system must be rebalanced - sounds good to me - but I am definately a have not, although in the past I have been a have.
Marty - your take on what John Minto is spot-on but I still stand by what I say.
He didn't, in my view, present himself well. His voice became flatter and flatter as the interview went on and he didn't successfully steer clear of sounding decades behind the play, stylistically. He sounded like a '70s Communist. Despite the fact that his message of disparity and the ills that brings is, in my view, correct, he didn't package himself or his message well. I was disappointed. The panel reacted similarly to me I think, despite Helen Kelly being there. Today, even she sounded 'dated'. The inequality meme needs to be jazzed-up if it's to capture the hearts of New Zealanders.
In comparing John Minto to Anne Tolley, I may have been unfair. Minto has an intelligent grasp of his ideology whereas Tolley just comes across as pedantic and lacking in oomph, smarts-wise. Her performance was truly awful and John's was merely disappointing. He needs a PR person, despite his depth of experience and obvious dedication to a just society. Tolley's not even in the game when it comes to that. I know you are Mana-supportive Marty and I hope those issues of message can be overcome before the campaign-proper begins.
Ka pai e hoa
Your description of Minto sounds great and reminds me of the latest archdruid report (thanks for putting me onto that site). Cut-through, fight their sound-bite prepackaged ready to eat politics by being real and telling the truth - hell it is bound to fail but who cares, at least we will have integrity. Mana voters can see and smell bullshit from a mile away - that is why many don't vote now - not for the gnats, labour, greens or anyone. But we will change all that rob, we must.
Agree entirely Marty - truth will out and prevail. Might as well start as we mean to go on. Personally, I think Mana and her message are one cycle too early. During the next term, the kinds of things Hone. John, Sue and Annette are saying will go straight into people's ears, rather than having to fight through the cotton-wool of 'it's still going okay'.
Robert, Minto is a 70's communist!!
That's why he sounds like one!
New people are needed, dinosaurs do best in museums.
Oh, and it isn't "dull" it's reality, it's only dull if your eyes still have a red (or blue) cataract over them!
They fall off eventually.
How about green? You didn't mention green.
New people are needed Shunda? Where are they and how will we know them and won't their lack of experience count against them when they have to mix it with the old hands?
New parties, new characters struggle to be eard at all. Have you got some ideas about how the change you hint at might happen? Do you see it happening outside of the conventional political system? Grassroots?
I'd like to know what you are hinting at.
Perhaps you just don't like Minto :-)
labels shunda just labels - and the meaning changes over time depending upon who we want to demonise.
What part of "they take the money off the poor by paying the minimum possible for the work and the profits created go to a small number of people thus increasing the gap between the haves and have nots - and that system must be rebalanced" do you disagree with shunda?
New people are needed? - he is new having never entertained standing before or do you mean younger or perhaps unknown?
No Marty, I mean people with workable ideas instead of tired, unworkable worn out ideology.
You misunderstand the cause of our problems in my opinion, and using boring 1970's rhetoric is about as sensible as rebuilding Christchurch out of spaghetti.
Robert, mix it with the old hands? Nope.
The old hands in this country are an excessively stubborn bunch that haven't given a rats arse about the next generation for, well, generations!
Basically Robert, baby boomers are the problem, they have built sweet eff all for the next generation, and that is an apolitical movement, both left and right are as bad as each other.
This is the dark underbelly of Kiwi society.
A whole generation to blame Shunda? All culpable? Doubt it!
There are good men and women scattered throughout the generational firmament.
Recognising them is the trick.
The so called workable ideas aren't really working too well are they - why is that? Because they are actually not workable, just thought and maintained as workable, and the so called unworkable ideas, which have not been tried because of the vested interests in keeping them unworkable, if tried, would actually prove to be workable.
Generalising is not always wrong Robert.
And sure, there are good baby boomers in NZ, but just like we can generalise that the western world has been drunk on unsustainable resource exploitation, we can do the same with a certain generation in NZ.
Sorry Marty, but those ideas have already been tried...and umm......they didn't work!
So Shunda - you're hanging out for the peers of your children to lead us to the Promised Land?
Or have you abandoned all hope?
Is there any hope Robert?, is there an easy way to land after driving off a cliff?
Go Shunda!!
"is there any hope robert" - FFS you are still breathing aren't you?
Instead of moaning about old ideas and ideologies use your brain and think beyond your programming - that is the only way you can be part of a solution instead of just adding to the problems.
Minto sounds far more coherent without the shouting into a megaphone abusing innocent young people from countries he hates.
Unfortunately his new choice of political vehicle lends itself more to lots of decibels aimed at the unhearing.
This interview portrayed him more as someone with a considered view who "could" make a useful contribution if he "discussed" issues with people who were not simply targets for abuse. People not already of his ilk, but who have a capacity to listen to intelligent discourse regardless of its "unpalatable" source.
Often the Mintos of the world force others to turn a deaf ear.
It is not an uncommon failing.
"The inequality meme needs to be jazzed up" - you poor, sad bastard.
You're often accused of verbosity Chris - what happened?
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