We have had a bumper flowering up here too It is said to be a sign of hot summer or a may be a drought according to Maori A couple of weasel words there because a hot summer is not necessarily a drought
It will be interesting to observe
According to the ODT 1913 was also a fantastic year for Cabbage Tree flowers but I can't find a the rainfall records for those years yet
Not at all, though I did decide that you may believe that plants understand the concept of time, on the basis that you think that they predict something about the future (e.g. "there will be a hotter summer"). The rest of my comment is deleted because it is late, and I'm not sure it would read well, or even make sense.
Plants predict the future? Plants predict? People certainly predict the future using plants. For example, yarrow is central to IChing and the Mayan calender I saw was printed on paper. We have a set of Chinese fortune telling 'straws' made from bamboo. Then there are the shamanic amanitas (which of course are fungi, not plants but you get my drift...)
I'm with AC on this one. To believe a plant can predict future weather and then control it's flowering, based on what it has predicted, is fanciful. The cabbage trees here in East Otago are flowering beautifully.
Sure, Robert. If we accept that cabbage trees flower heavily in anticipation of a hot summer, the "anticipate" part implies an ability to understand and respond to the concept of "time", and indeed a further ability to subclassify time into "past", "present" and "future". Can we agree that before moving to the next step?
Ummm, no, I can't agree with that. I believe they set heavily because of conditions past and present which in themselves might predicate a hot, dry season, but I don't think plants can 'look ahead' and act in accordance with what they sense will come. Typically, a dry summer might be preceeded by a spring that has a certain combination of factors that affect cabbage tree behaviour. That's how I see it.
Oh. How dull. And just when I thought this might get interesting. The legend of thinking trees lurks deep within our psyches. Evidence based approaches. Hmmph!
I can understand how certain spring conditions could result in abundant flowering and that over generations it was noted that a hot and/or dry summer followed, sadly thanks to the weird weather patterns of climate change all bets are off. Our pohutakawas flower mid Jan thru Feb. Good luck with the pawlonia Robert, the label on the one we planted 20 years ago read 'plant and stand back', but it is still only 3m tall. Neat flowers though.
Legend, AC? Whadda ya mean, legend? There's no doubt at all in my mind that trees have a 'presence' and an awareness that is not readily discernible by we moderns. I don't go as far as ent, but I do side with the druids.
Too late. I'm sulking and I'm not going to discuss the idea that trees might be sentient with you. In fact, I'm in such a bad mood I might head over to homepaddock and be impolite to the various overly sensitive souls over there. Because I can.
Yeah Robert, you are into that Greenman image and that's a face in a tree, so that proves you think trees have brains. I might go play in the homepaddock too, cos I can do logic like they do over there.
So far all I've learned is that I know nothing, for certain. Hence the comment about the causal nexus. Are trees sentient? Perhaps not in the sense we often conceptualise sentience, but they appear to show signs of sentience. Is that a more interesting topic than whether 74% is a magic number? Most definitely. NOTE - punctuation is set deliberately to provide ambivalence.
Got sidetracked on way to HP by doco on black power salute on Maori tv. Perhaps some of the other commenters were watching it too, things quiet there except for excellent comments on word of the day.
:-) missed you CG. How was the doco, did it offend people's sensibilities too? I also got distracted by the paucity of intellect at HP and visited my friend Puddleglum at The Political Scientist.
we are already an exceptionally dry and warm spring and the c.australis are flowering profusely everywhere in the south and east at least
New scientist had an interesting piece on plant sentience recently and came to the conclusion that they certainly exhibit many attributes that relate to situational awareness and can also communicate - they cen "see" different colours feel" heat and tell the day length, they can also communicate to other plants when under stress by lreeasing distinctive chemicals that induce a similar stress response in adjoining plants or when fertile and wishing to attract pollenators and while we may not consider these comparable to human "senses" I have met any number of people who would be pushed hard to exhibit higher levels of consciousness and ability to communicate than those exhibited by the average plant
Cabbages, darkhorse? The soil here has become dry quite rapidly. I worry for those who don't garden the way I do :-) We've expanded our catchment area with a new roofed car-port and we've shrunk our lawn to an un-mowed pocket-handkerchief that won't require sprinkling.
AC, the doco didn't offend anyone's sensibilities at my place (what with us being trendy lefty liberal types ), but the black power salute didn't go down well in '68. The programme focussed on Peter Norman, the Australian who stood on the dias, he didn't raise his fist, but he wore a badge to show solidarity with the US civil rights movement. It ended his career. The Aussie record he set in that race stood for over 30 years, but he was shunned from that day.
They are definitely starting up paranormal. Have you seen the yellow and white flowered ones around the intersection of Mt Eden and Mt Albert Roads. Worth a look.
We have had a bumper flowering up here too
ReplyDeleteIt is said to be a sign of hot summer or a may be a drought according to Maori
A couple of weasel words there because a hot summer is not necessarily a drought
It will be interesting to observe
According to the ODT 1913 was also a fantastic year for Cabbage Tree flowers but I can't find a the rainfall records for those years yet
Ray, not sure where 'up here' is for you but in Auckland and Waikato they're going gangbusters.
ReplyDeleteI guess it's like Pohutakawas flowering before Christmas - not a sign of a hot summer to come, a sign that it's been warm up to now.
Would love to think it was a sign of something to come but tend to think its a reflection of a mild spring
ReplyDeleteSuperstition is the belief in the causal nexus, Robert.
ReplyDeleteI'm hearing that too, Ray. Is it that the cabbage trees sense a drought-threat to their future and so invest heavily in seed in case they croak?
ReplyDeletePara - I have a pohutukawa growing in my garden - not flowering yet.
ReplyDeletePhilip - it's bound to be an indication of something. Most likely scenario - the air will be fragrant for a couple of weeks.
ReplyDeleteAC - I don't doubt that. Did you draw from my title that I am superstitious?
ReplyDeleteNot at all, though I did decide that you may believe that plants understand the concept of time, on the basis that you think that they predict something about the future (e.g. "there will be a hotter summer"). The rest of my comment is deleted because it is late, and I'm not sure it would read well, or even make sense.
ReplyDeletePlants predict the future?
ReplyDeletePlants predict?
People certainly predict the future using plants. For example, yarrow is central to IChing and the Mayan calender I saw was printed on paper. We have a set of Chinese fortune telling 'straws' made from bamboo.
Then there are the shamanic amanitas (which of course are fungi, not plants but you get my drift...)
I'm with AC on this one. To believe a plant can predict future weather and then control it's flowering, based on what it has predicted, is fanciful. The cabbage trees here in East Otago are flowering beautifully.
ReplyDeleteSure, Robert. If we accept that cabbage trees flower heavily in anticipation of a hot summer, the "anticipate" part implies an ability to understand and respond to the concept of "time", and indeed a further ability to subclassify time into "past", "present" and "future". Can we agree that before moving to the next step?
ReplyDeleteUmmm, no, I can't agree with that. I believe they set heavily because of conditions past and present which in themselves might predicate a hot, dry season, but I don't think plants can 'look ahead' and act in accordance with what they sense will come. Typically, a dry summer might be preceeded by a spring that has a certain combination of factors that affect cabbage tree behaviour. That's how I see it.
ReplyDeleteOh. How dull. And just when I thought this might get interesting. The legend of thinking trees lurks deep within our psyches.
ReplyDeleteEvidence based approaches. Hmmph!
I can understand how certain spring conditions could result in abundant flowering and that over generations it was noted that a hot and/or dry summer followed, sadly thanks to the weird weather patterns of climate change all bets are off. Our pohutakawas flower mid Jan thru Feb. Good luck with the pawlonia Robert, the label on the one we planted 20 years ago read 'plant and stand back', but it is still only 3m tall. Neat flowers though.
ReplyDelete"plant and stand back"
ReplyDelete- that's great! I think it only applies to bamboo though. And banana passion-fruit. Japanese knotweed. Some other famous pests.
Legend, AC?
ReplyDeleteWhadda ya mean, legend? There's no doubt at all in my mind that trees have a 'presence' and an awareness that is not readily discernible by we moderns. I don't go as far as ent, but I do side with the druids.
Too late. I'm sulking and I'm not going to discuss the idea that trees might be sentient with you. In fact, I'm in such a bad mood I might head over to homepaddock and be impolite to the various overly sensitive souls over there. Because I can.
ReplyDeleteYeah Robert, you are into that Greenman image and that's a face in a tree, so that proves you think trees have brains. I might go play in the homepaddock too, cos I can do logic like they do over there.
ReplyDeleteThat Word of the Day post presents a wide range of opportunities...
ReplyDeleteCorokia - AC being subtle, not obnoxious. He's a very clever guy and will eventually admit that he too knows that trees are sentient.
ReplyDeleteOff to HP.
ReplyDeleteSo far all I've learned is that I know nothing, for certain. Hence the comment about the causal nexus. Are trees sentient? Perhaps not in the sense we often conceptualise sentience, but they appear to show signs of sentience. Is that a more interesting topic than whether 74% is a magic number? Most definitely. NOTE - punctuation is set deliberately to provide ambivalence.
ReplyDeleteGot sidetracked on way to HP by doco on black power salute on Maori tv. Perhaps some of the other commenters were watching it too, things quiet there except for excellent comments on word of the day.
ReplyDelete:-) missed you CG. How was the doco, did it offend people's sensibilities too? I also got distracted by the paucity of intellect at HP and visited my friend Puddleglum at The Political Scientist.
ReplyDeletewe are already an exceptionally dry and warm spring and the c.australis are flowering profusely everywhere in the south and east at least
ReplyDeleteNew scientist had an interesting piece on plant sentience recently and came to the conclusion that they certainly exhibit many attributes that relate to situational awareness and can also communicate - they cen "see" different colours
feel" heat and tell the day length, they can also communicate to other plants when under stress by lreeasing distinctive chemicals that induce a similar stress response in adjoining plants or when fertile and wishing to attract pollenators and while we may not consider these comparable to human "senses" I have met any number of people who would be pushed hard to exhibit higher levels of consciousness and ability to communicate than those exhibited by the average plant
Cabbages, darkhorse?
ReplyDeleteThe soil here has become dry quite rapidly. I worry for those who don't garden the way I do :-) We've expanded our catchment area with a new roofed car-port and we've shrunk our lawn to an un-mowed pocket-handkerchief that won't require sprinkling.
I mentioned it on Monday and noticed on Tuesday the Pohutakawas are starting to flower up here already.
ReplyDeleteAC, the doco didn't offend anyone's sensibilities at my place (what with us being trendy lefty liberal types ), but the black power salute didn't go down well in '68. The programme focussed on Peter Norman, the Australian who stood on the dias, he didn't raise his fist, but he wore a badge to show solidarity with the US civil rights movement. It ended his career. The Aussie record he set in that race stood for over 30 years, but he was shunned from that day.
ReplyDeleteThey are definitely starting up paranormal. Have you seen the yellow and white flowered ones around the intersection of Mt Eden and Mt Albert Roads. Worth a look.
ReplyDeleteI haven't thanks AC - I will stroll over for a look. The ones on Tamaki Drive will be ablaze in the next few days.
ReplyDeleteMore cabbage tree pics in latest post
ReplyDeleteA bumper year in Auckland 2019
ReplyDeleteTaranaki 2022 and they are blooming in mid november
ReplyDelete